Episode 11 – Integrated transport delivery: why land use and transport planning must work together, with Leigh Stolworthy, Transport Planning Director at Stantec
Epsiode intro
Our guest today is Leigh Stolworthy, Transport Planning Director at Stantec. Leigh discusses the critical relationship between transport planning and place making, exploring solutions at both city and rural scales.
In this episode Leigh talks about:
the importance of integrating transport planning and land use planning from day one
why public transport investment needs rebalancing to create viable alternatives to cars
the differences between city scale and rural scale transport solutions and why one approach doesn’t fit all
how data and new metrics are transforming our understanding of successful transport planning
the importance of making small, incremental infrastructure improvements to improve the experience and encourage more active travel
The Interchange Podcast is produced in association with Arcadis and interviews leading changemakers and thinkers about how we can make integrated transport infrastructure happen. This season’s discussions fall under 4 key themes: Place, Data and Digitisation, Energy and Environment.
The Interchange Podcast series is part of Interchange, which is a platform that culminates in a thought-provoking two-day major conference being held on 04/05 March 2025 at Manchester Central. Make sure you’ve registered for your free ticket at www.interchange-uk.com
Leigh Stolworthy
Leigh Stolworthy is a director in Stantec’s transport planning team and is based in its Birmingham office. He’s involved in multiple land development projects delivering houses, jobs, social and community facilities.
With over 25 years of experience, Leigh’s background includes working with both the local government/transport authority and consulting engineering environments. He’s driven by a passion for finding new ways to positively contribute to building an innovative and human oriented transport future. In his previous roles, Leigh has served as the integrated transport planning manager for the City of Cape Town and the innovation, research and development manager at the Cape Town Transport & Urban Development Authority.
"The joined up thinking between land use planning and transport needs to happen at the beginning. If you don't do it at the same time, you end up having to retrofit the transport response to a master plan that already exists."
Resources and Links
About Interchange UK
The Interchange Podcast series is part of Interchange, which culminates around a two-day major event about rethinking transport infrastructure taking place in Manchester on 4/5 March 2025. If you’d like to attend you can book your place here.
Transcript
SPEAKERS
Ayo Abbas, Leigh Stolworthy
Ayo Abbas 00:00
Leigh, hello and welcome to the latest episode of The Interchange Podcast hosted by me Ayo Abbas. This podcast is kindly supported by Arcadis. Today, my guestis Leigh Stolworthy, who is a Transport Planning Director from Stantec. In this episode, we look at the role of placemaking and transport. We look at transportplanning solutions and place making solutions, both from a city scale and also for a more rural scale, and we talk about the differences and the challenges that both settings face. We also look at the importance of looking at both land use planning and transport combined to take a really systematic approach anyway. I hope you enjoy this episode. Take care. Bye. Hi, Leigh. Welcome to The Interchange Podcast. Can you introduce yourself and your role at Stantec please? Hi,
Leigh Stolworthy 00:55
I'm morning Ayo. I'm Leigh Stolworthy the Director of Transport Planning at Stantec, based in the Birmingham office, I've been a transport planner, pretty much my entire career started out as a civil engineer, ended up as a transport planner, working on all types of projects, strategic land, urban regen, etc. And I've spent probably about 15 years my career in local government, working at different cities, doing strategic transport planning. So have quite a broad range of experience that's built on over time for 25 years. And you originally from Cape Town? No, I was born in Derby. Now I'm in Birmingham, but my parents emigrated there when I was still at school, okay, did university there and all that. And then worked, firstly as a consultant civil engineer and then a traffic engineer, and then came back to the UK, worked in London for a while, went back, worked the City of Cape Town for 10 years.
Ayo Abbas 01:56
Oh, wow, that's quite a city, beautiful. Quite a few times it's lovely anyway. So back to transport, place and place making. So what is the role of transport in making, in place making?
Leigh Stolworthy 02:09
It's it's quite complex and multi-faceted. So I could try and think of it in terms of scales. So at city scale, for example, that the way that land use is configured in space determines the travel demand profile how people move, because people are trying to get to something in order to live their lives. And so it influences the way that cities grow into the future, and the way that we can manipulate that growth to try and balance any imbalances that already exist in a city that has grown inefficiently, for example, that then at a city scale, translates to defining corridors. And corridors are generally characterised by mass transit systems such as heavy rail, metro systems, road based public transport and and those have a different character and feel to them in terms of the built environment and the form that exists around and tend to have higher densities and at nodes and precincts along the length of corridors. They also have high densities, but tend to have mixed use and become multi functional. And the benefit of that is that they can attract travel in multiple directions within the transport corridor, but tend to be more vibrant, focused on on the human element, and more space for people, rather than vehicles and feeder transport systems, small scale feeder transport systems, leading to public leading to public transport. So if you think about it in that way, that how cities are formed and how they function determines how land use is configured around that and how that's evolved over time. A lot of the cities that we, that we live in now have evolved over long periods of time. They're quite old, and they've been added on and built on all the time, and sometimes results in inefficiencies that need to be addressed in the way that we deal with future growth. So
Ayo Abbas 03:46
it gets me more piecemeal, like, because of the years and the time, and you add stuff on and just work as well. Yeah,
Leigh Stolworthy 03:52
it's like, if you ever been to when you're going looking for a house to buy, and you find one that's been added on too many times, and you have to go through the bedroom to get to the kitchen at some time. Sometimes the cities can feel like that because they're higgledy-piggledy
Leigh Stolworthy 04:11
yeah, you would have noticed, though, that in kind of my response to your question is that I haven't mentioned private cars yet, and that's not because I don't like them. It's just a question of physics, because in the full spectrum of modal hierarchy, a car is the least efficient in terms of moving large quantities of people and also the space that is required for them. So that's obviously a key consideration in the transport and the built form in place is how much space we need to accommodate all of this stuff, and what is the most efficient in terms of moving people around and also the space requirements for them.
Ayo Abbas 04:48
So that's why you're looking more at mass transit, as opposed to other other types of well,
Leigh Stolworthy 04:53
it doesn't have to be mass it depends on on what the demand is and what the function is and what the purpose that needs to serve. It can be smaller scale public. Transport or active mobility, and walking and cycling all depends on and what it is that you try to achieve from that. But essentially, the car is the least efficient out of all of it, and that needs to be considered. There is a role for that, for them to play in, in the movement system, but it shouldn't be as prioritised as it has been in the past, which has resulted in the city forms that we have at the moment. And
Ayo Abbas 05:19
so how do you see transport and place making working together to make, I guess, more integrative transport happen. What do you see? How do you how do you see them working the
Leigh Stolworthy 05:29
the often discussed, but rarely seen, integrated land use and transport planning. I think it's it's got a lot to do with timing, and it needs that the thinking, the joined up thinking between land use planning and transport needs to happen at the beginning. At the beginning of a planning process, whether that's a strategic planning process or a single development planning process, because the if you don't do it at the same time, you end up having to retrofit the transport response to a master plan that already exists, and that's the least inefficient way of getting the right outcome. There is obviously a certain amount of this happening already, but it's still pretty siloed, and it can be influenced by politics and administrative hierarchies, and also influences as to where the process is started. So if it starts off in a certain process by a certain discipline or a certain part of an administration, and then transport gets bolted on later on, that the horse is bolted at that point. And you've missed the opportunity to integrate those things. And I've seen it many times as a transport consultant, that as a transport planner, we get, we get appointed by a client to come and look at the transport work for a planning application or for strategy. And if it's a planning application for land development, the Master Plan sometimes is really half built. It's already half built. It's already evolved to a certain point, and you've missed the opportunity then to build in transport and integrated land use efficiencies into the process. So it needs to happen at the beginning of every strategic planning process.
Ayo Abbas 06:56
It's right at the front learning stage engagement, yeah,
Leigh Stolworthy 06:59
and it's even more important, but more complex at city scale planning, because you already have built form, and often times that it's sub optimal in terms of transport and movement, so you only have regeneration, catalytic transformation and future growth to work with to get that balance right and to get the city to function properly. So it's much more interesting and but more complex at a city scale than it is for an individual land development. Land development project.
Ayo Abbas 07:24
So
Ayo Abbas 07:24
what opportunities do you see if we do get this right and we start to kind of bring this integration together between transport and place making?
Leigh Stolworthy 07:31
Well, let's talk challenges. First, being optimistic. Yeah. Well, first we need to understand what we're dealing with in order to be able to be able to identify opportunities within it. And there's always opportunities within chaos, right? But the biggest challenge that we need to overcome is that if we do nothing differently, nothing will ever change. And the best form of travel demand management is to manage it before it actually happens. So to manipulate travel demand before it's actually realised on the public transport systems, on the networks. It's the best way to do that, and you do that by integrating land use and transport planning and making sure that whatever plans and strategies you develop are leading us into the right direction. And I think in that there's significant opportunities to understand the world better now than existed 25 years ago, when I was beginning my journey as a transport planner. And there was a whole there's a whole generation of transport planners and traffic engineers that that have evolved through the process of of using tools that were available at the time, even though we know now that those tools are not leading in us in the right direction. I mean, back when I was a highways and traffic engineer, 20 odd years ago, success and failure of a future project was measured in terms of vehicle delays and volume capacity ratios. But we know that there's a lot more important things that we need to start thinking about in terms of what success looks like and what it feels like for the people that we're planning for. There's also a lot more data available now and and also skills that are emerging to understand and help us to manipulate that data, to enable us to make better decisions and identify actions and lead us down a more human orientated outcomes path than just looking at vehicles and delays and congestion and those kind of things. So rather than looking at all of that, it's starting to build in things and metrics around what it is that people need to live their lives in the best possible way. And there's a lot more data that's available now, and there's career streams that are emerging that specialize in understanding and manipulating that data, things like environmental psychology and those kind of things that we don't leverage enough as transport planners to understand the world better. And I think that's changing, and there's there's massive opportunities in the future. I think with regards to that, it also creates the opportunity to to periodically measure our ability to achieve desired outcomes and make incremental adjustments along the way, when, when things aren't quite going according to plan. If you have access. Data that is consistent and that you can keep using to measure progress and transformation and your ability to achieve the plan. Data
Ayo Abbas 10:07
has been a massive topic, actually, in all the interviews I've done in terms of what it's going to be able to enable, and I guess understanding the whole kind of journey process all the way from end to end. So it is everyone's disciplines will change, won't they, along the way because of it. Yeah. So how can the planning process help things along? Do you think in terms of getting integrated transport to happen more? Is there anything that can be done or with the current system as it is, or are there going to be changes? Do you reckon needed
Leigh Stolworthy 10:34
absolutely changes? I think everyone recognizes that, you know, the NPPF that you know that's recently come out, recognizes that things need to change. What I said earlier on is, if we do nothing differently, then nothing will change. And I think national policy has come a long way in recent years, and we've got, I think, significant policy instruments available to us now to enable real change. But the difficult part comes in is in how those get translated at local level, where planning decisions are made, and there is, there's still quite a big disparity between the intentions of national policy and how that's applied on the ground. Alongside things like anachronistic guidance and standards, there are obviously pockets of excellence with regards to this and using national policy instruments to try and affect change, mostly in cities, because there are a lot more dynamic and probably better resource to be able to do this. But there are still examples of of planning authorities that are using decade old parking guidance, for example, so that the you know, the planning system needs to be refined in order to be able to to give effect to the national policy intentions, I think in the planning system as well, needs to be adapted and streamlined to incentivize and fast track development that can catalyse certain elements of an adopted strategic plan. So if we have a plan, and that plan has got change built into it over time, we need to, we need to streamline the planning process in order to be able to affect that change, and assigning a dedicated case officer to a catalytic project is not enough. We need to think about the processes that they need to follow if a case officer is assigned but they're following the same processes that they do for any other site. And you're trying to work now, you're trying to catalyse a shift, or a land use shift, or a certain type of development in a certain place, to be able to change the movement dynamic, you need to be able to deal with it in a fast way. And that significantly reduces the time for targeted planning applications, which is well, that translates into a financial incentive. It might be a financial a non financial incentive for a local authority to produce a fast track process. But for a developer, time equals money. So if you can develop a process that fast tracks those those applications, then that will incentivise development in itself, because you
Ayo Abbas 12:50
want that development to happen with that transport in it, and you
Leigh Stolworthy 12:53
want it to happen in a certain place to affect, to catalyse a change. So you can, you can develop processes that streamline applications for the type of development you want, where you want it, but
Ayo Abbas 13:04
you'd need to look at your system around that to make that happen, right? That's basically that makes, makes perfect sense. Um, and how would you measure the success of transport and place making what? How would you know it's working if you put in these new, new measures and you can kind of catalyze things where you need them. Yeah, it's
Leigh Stolworthy 13:21
linked to the thing earlier on about data. Traditional transport change metrics are things like distance traveled or mode share or time travel. So how long do people travel? How far do they go, what modes they use. Those are all traditional transport metrics to measure the success of something into in transport terms, but, but now we have access to so much more data, and there's so much more we need to think about, rather than just the cold, hard facts of what comes out of a transport model. And think bring it building in things like quality of life metrics such as, you know, proximity to jobs and the density of those jobs, you know, spatially reference, housing affordability indicators, for example, access to schools and other amenities that people need to live their lives, not just type and quantum, but quality of those things is something that we often kind of miss out. We see a plan, we see a bunch of schools, and go, oh yeah, there's loads of schools there that this place is accessible. But if no one wants to use those schools or send their kids to their schools. It's yeah, it's different. So there's a multitude of other quality of life indicators that we need to start bringing in to measure the quality of transport, placemaking, and whether or not the plans that we are trying to implement are being achieved in terms of those wider metrics.
Ayo Abbas 14:38
And how important is location when it comes to transport planning, is it a case of location, location,location?
Leigh Stolworthy 14:45
Well, it is. Location is critical, because access is a key decision driver in location for people and businesses, you know where you choose to live, you know you need access to the things that you need to live your life, whether it be. Need to send your kids to school, or you need access to public transport. You need access to other amenities. And the same applies to business. You know, they need access to customers, they need access to the market and all of those kind of things. So it's critically important, and it's a key factor in property economics and locational decisions, and local locational decision drivers. Access is key to that. So transport is critical what and choosing locations that prioritize or that can leverage existing transport strategic transport assets is key in that decision process, you know. So, for example, a commercial industrial development will be one to be close to the strategic road network, because that's how they function. That's how they operate. You know, a local or a strategic residential development site needs to be located close to public transport and amenities, for example. So all of those things are key, and it affects locational decisions of the people that are likely to live there. And you know, to a large extent, those things are considered but I don't think they are considered enough. Okay,
Ayo Abbas 15:59
so now let's look at kind of major cities. I know you talked about the city scale work. So how can we deliver more functional major cities?
Leigh Stolworthy 16:08
That's a tricky one. It's complicated. Of course we can. So cities have evolved over long periods of time, and the people that probably set them out and planned them in the beginning had no idea how big or how complex they will become. And so they've kind of evolved over time. And, you know, in some places, you know, sub optimal in terms of their efficiency and their functionality. So we're already with cities. We're already, you know, working with a built environment that exists. And so we have to try and fix it. But at the same time, think about, how do we grow it? So we kind of, you know, you need to separate those two things in the way that you deal with them, but at the same time, think about them at the same time. So you know, you need to consider the relationship between regeneration, transformation and existing city format, and what the role of future growth plays in both of those things. And I remember years ago working with a with a transport planner that said to me that I was trying to figure out ways to incentivize city centre growth, you know, in order to balance the travel demand profile within an existing city. And and this, this planner said to me, as long as the development of one square meter of concrete is more expensive than the development of one square meter of grass, the market will tend towards the latter, and that's why we need to start figuring out ways to incentivise densification around public transport corridors, even though it might take longer and it's more expensive and usually more constrained. How can we de risk that in order to be able to fix the form that we have whilst we're thinking about using future growth to help to also redress the imbalances and make sure that the way that we grow in the future, you know, leads towards that, that functionality and that improved efficiencies. Because if, if a city can't move, it can't work, and it doesn't, it just has no purpose to exist.
Ayo Abbas 18:01
So how do we demand? How do you balance the demands of public and private transport in our cities? I know some, I know lots of people are like, I love my car. I don't want to get out of it. And I where I live in tooting those and Streatham, you've sort of seen the whole, you know, when the ltns came in, it was carnage, to be honest.
Leigh Stolworthy 18:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there we have this emotional, emotional connection to to cars. Have you heard of the concept of motor normativity? No something to research after this. We don't have time to go into it now, but it's the way that society perceives the role of the car. And we have a bit of a blind spot with regards to that. But in terms of investment into transport systems, there needs to be a balanced approach in terms of investment, whether it be towards public transport or private transport, and this is because we can't build ourselves out of congestion. You know, it's movement inefficiencies in cities on the road network are a result of congestion. But we know that there's a vicious cycle that we've been in for decades, that the more roads you build, the more cars you get, because they just take up whatever capacity is created, and you end up never getting out of that that state. So you need to break that cycle by tipping the balance towards public transport investment so that but people aren't going to use public transport, unless it's a viable alternative to the car, or unless there's a degree of pain associated with using the car. Because, you know, people only really make big life changing decisions when the pain of remaining within a certain behavior is outweighs the benefit of choosing a new behavior, and so we tend to just keep pandering to cars, and we're enabling the perpetuation of that behavior. But on the other hand, though, public transport, at the moment is is fraught with inefficiencies and operational, you know, problems and those kind of things, which is is not helpful in trying. Into transition from private merchant dominance to public transport. Merchant dominance, which is the most efficient way to move people around. Obviously, it doesn't apply for every trip purpose, depending on where someone's going, how far they're traveling, and what's available to them, but we need to provide investment into public transport in order to draw people away and also keep existing customers on public transport, people that are using public transport at the moment, I use it all the time, and sometimes when my trains are canceled, I'm like, but you know, it's not enough to make me want to drive a car, because the pain of driving a car for me is too great. I was
Ayo Abbas 20:36
gonna say, especially in central Birmingham, that's not great, yeah. But if
Leigh Stolworthy 20:40
we keep removing the pain, then the tendency will just be remained with cars. So there's that balance that needs to be provided in favour of public transport in order to get that shift to happen. The other thing applies to smaller scale modes of transport as well, like walkability and cycling and bikeability and those kind of things. And I cycle, and in winter, I cycle to the train station and take my bike on the train, and then I cycle the rest of the way when I get to work. But in summer, I cycle the whole way. But doing that, you notice that the walkability, the bikeability, of a city, is often fragmented, and there's bits here and there that don't quite join up, those little things, those small little things that are missing in a complete network affect people's decisions to do that. So if they don't all work together, and there's any missing pieces, or there's a piece that's not safe, or a piece that deviates or sends you a long way around, or there's a bit of cycle lane that's missing, that would be the difference between doing it or not doing it. And those are the small little things that we can do to create these connected networks, incremental
Ayo Abbas 21:45
things you could look for, that you can fix and do, which aren't massive, but will make a difference. I think, a balanced
Leigh Stolworthy 21:50
approach of fixing what we have, making it better, improving it, adding more, but also, you know, filling in the missing blanks of movement systems that we want people to use, and that are the smaller things that we can do to really affect change and modal shift, I think, and in terms
Ayo Abbas 22:09
of the devolution agenda. So we've got city mayors and we've got combined authorities. Is that helping in terms of the delivery of integrated transport? In your opinion,
Leigh Stolworthy 22:19
theoretically, devolution can benefit transport integration by simplifying regulatory processes and and streamlining decision making. It is, however, not easy to get that right, and it needs to be really, really carefully thought through, because it can lead to additional inefficiencies if certain aspects are excluded. So if you only have partial devolution of a particular function, it's not going to be helpful. You know, you need to think that that through and carefully draw up those devolution deals so that there's nothing missing that doesn't give you any benefit of that devolution or that that increased power to be able to make decisions and act on on your strategic plans. But the other kind of flip side of devolution is that whilst it enables local and regional governments to make decisions and, you know, be a little bit more in control of their own destiny, it still needs to fit within a wider framework and manage national system, otherwise you end up with these islands that don't fit with anything else. So it needs to, it needs to be carefully thought out. But there is obviously benefits to devolution in terms of streamlining processes. So moving
Ayo Abbas 23:27
to small towns and rural areas, do the models that we've discussed now in terms of transport and place making investment, do they still apply to small towns and rural areas? Or is it different?
Leigh Stolworthy 23:36
It is different, completely different characteristics in terms of the way that land uses are configured, but also travel patterns and densities, etc. It's completely different to cities, but similar in some ways. Travel distances tend to be longer, generally have less options with regards to public transport compared to cities. Public transport can be expensive to provide because you're covering large distances with small passenger demand numbers. So you need higher subsidy levels to make that public transport work, which is why you see things like demand responsive transit emerging in some rural areas to some degree of success. And that's because they're a little bit more agile and a little bit more flexible in terms of how they balance supply and demand and cost and revenue in order to be able to lower the sort of the subsidy gap for that but at the same time providing that service to people that live there. There's some good examples of those that emerging, I think, lots of lessons learned with regards to how those work. The thing with demand responsive transit and any of these innovative rural public transport concepts that are emerging now is that, compared to traditional bus services, that there is a startup cost associated with them, but in the long term, you have a much greater opportunity to balance the supply and demand and the cost and revenue subsidy formula for those forms of public transport. What sort of forms are being introduced, sorry, demand response. Of public transport. So it's so instead of having a traditional bus that is following a fixed route and stopping at designated stops along the way, regardless of whether this passage is although that if there's no one there, they don't have to stop. But it's less efficient in terms of ticket sales, bumps on seats, multiple direction flows and those kind of things, and they have a standard fleet size, whereas demand responsive transit can start off small with smaller fleet sizes based on the numbers of people that are that are wanting to use it, and then grow over time as the demand profile increases. So it's you can. You can trim the fleet and the operational cost closer to what your demand is than you can with traditional operating plus operating systems. So it's, it's more viable in an area where you've got less demand for public transport. And
Ayo Abbas 25:49
is that happening now already? Has that already been run?
Leigh Stolworthy 25:51
It is there are a couple of examples of that. There's locally to where I am, close to the ones that where I am is, there's a system in Worcester that's operating at the moment. There's, something in Gloucestershire that's happening down in London. There's loads of stuff that's happening on the periphery of London as well. So it's definitely taking off in rural areas as an alternative to the traditional bus services that
Ayo Abbas 26:15
I've heard about the Worcester one before. Actually, I said it's really useful to get into town if you if you live in the rural areas, yeah, there
Leigh Stolworthy 26:22
are costs associated with initially to start up, but it's more flexible and agile once it's going but, yeah, so these are the kind of things that are emerging in rural areas to, you know, help with public transport and access and to try and, you know, because people in rural areas, because they generally travel further distances, etc, tend to be more that car dominant than in cities where it's it's harder to drive a car, or you're more constrained and it's there's no time benefit to traveling by car. In rural areas, it is often still the case where the car is the preferred choice because of the distances that need to be traveled. What we are trying to apply at some of the strategic land projects that we're working on is to create a community that doesn't have to rely on that, that is designed in a different way, with mobility hubs that have sharing and all that kind of thing, yeah, car sharing, mobility hubs, all those kind of things that converge at things like demand, Responsive transport areas where you can, you can transition from a active mobility mode to a road based public transport, form of transport and that that caters for every transport need. And so there isn't that there's less of a need to drive a car, but obviously it doesn't exclude that. But so trying to develop future communities in rural areas or semi rural areas that have those kind of options available, is what we're trying to achieve in the projects that we're working on at the moment, to varying degrees of success. But I think it's a transitional thing, and it's a mindset thing and a motor normativity thing that needs to happen, and we have to create the enabling environment for people to make smarter travel choices?
Ayo Abbas 28:02
Yeah, exactly, yeah. And final question, so, by 2030 which it actually isn't actually that far anymore, it's like five years. How do you what would your kind of ideal world for integrated transport be? Oh, how can I see it in your crystal ball?
Leigh Stolworthy 28:20
My ideal. So not what is going to happen, but my ideal. Go for it. My ideal is that we have public transport that is simple and easy to navigate for people, it's reliable and it's efficient and it's affordable, and you are able to to buy tickets across multiple platforms, and that the information is available at your fingertips, and that if I need to make a trip by a car, I still can, but I don't have to own one. And that cities become efficient, that space becomes available for humans rather than vehicles, and that the public realm acknowledges that and that cities are for people, not for for vehicles, and that the way that they are configured and the way that we grow them into the future starts to realize that starts to enable that I don't have any and I don't want to demonize the private car, that there's a role for them to play, but I think we need to move away, as a society from From from the reliance on them and the importance of them, because it freed up so much more in terms of space and our ability to move and more efficiencies if we, if we start to de prioritize them in the mix.
Ayo Abbas 29:32
Great. Thank you so much for coming on to show Leigh. Thank you, pleasure. Thanks so much for listening, and don't forget, Interchange isn't just a podcast. It's also a two day conference that will be taking place at Manchester Central on the fourth and fifth of March 2025 The conference will bring together the key public and private sector infrastructure operators and their value chain to talk about. Up new ideas to challenge the status quo and build strong relationships so we can have a shared approach to make integrated transport happen. Head to www.interchange-uk.com to find out more.
